About

[Updated]

I was a 31 year old virgin when I finally popped my man cherry. It’s been a roller coaster ride but I’ve succeeded and learned a lot about myself in the process.  Now I’m continuing my journey into self-improvement and discovery as I try to navigate adult relationships and the turmoil of dating in your 30s.

 I’m a 28 year old 29 year old 30 year old 31 year old virgin male. No, I don’t have social anxiety disorder or any other kind of debilitating disorder/syndrome/condition/etc. that prevents me from dating and forming relationships. Nor am I religious or saving it for marriage or anything of the sort.  I’ve just been incredibly unlucky in love, and herein I’m documenting my fruitless attempts at finding it.

Enjoy!

email: unfortunatevirgin@yahoo.com

148 thoughts on “About

  1. Keep your chin up! I found that I actually liked the idea of taking my friend’s 30 year old virginity. You’ll find someone who does, too, or you’ll find a woman maybe who wants to save it for marriage/is also a virgin herself! How cool would that be?!

      • Hah well I don’t know how common we are, or how easy we are to find. I will say that if you find a girl who thinks you are cute, and you both get a little buzzed at the bar, you might have a good chance at getting what you’re looking for. I’m not saying it will turn into something regular or quality, and it takes a lot of courage to do, but before I went looking for people online, if I really wanted to get laid, I’d just go out. Simple.

  2. Good luck! Your situation reminds me of my own. I’m 29 and a virgin, You’re better off than I am; I’ve been on a handful of awkward dates, never had a girlfriend. Other than this, I’m pretty normal, have a good job, etc.

    It’s been hitting me pretty hard lately though as I creep closer to 30. My friends are all married or in relationships and it makes you feel like you are some kind of outcast or leper, like there is something deeply wrong with you to have never had a girlfriend.

    I had a hard enough time 10 years ago but it seems even more hopeless now. It’s a catch 22… you can’t tell a 25+ year old woman you’re a virgin or she’ll freak the fuck out or decide that you’ll be a liability.

    In my case, how do you explain you’ve never been in a relationship before? It’s absolutely incomprehensible to 99% of women. It’s a negative in and of itself just because it makes them wonder just what the hell is wrong with this guy.

    I really hope you succeed, seems like you’re pretty close actually. I’m not optimistic about my own situation but I haven’t given up yet.

    • It’s great hearing from someone else who knows exactly how it feels. I don’t really think I’m that close to succeeding, though. I hear a lot of guys like yourself talking about how being a virgin scares women off – how does that even come up in conversation? I’ve never had an occasion to mention it. btw are you going to start a blog too? I’d certainly like to read it if you do…

      • I haven’t even had to mention it, haven’t gotten far enough. To be honest, and this may be my own insecurity talking, but I get the feeling that my awkwardness would possibly raise the question eventually.

        No blog for me I think, it would be pretty boring anyway with my work schedule of late. I’ll reconsider if I start having some positive results lol.

  3. Enjoyed reading your blog posts…38 year old dude here (don’t worry I’m straight) but I can totally relate to what you both are discussing here. I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 27 (2 months shy of 28 actually) and if I can impart a little advice from someone who has been in your shoes and now has had another of decade of life to reflect on (along with the wrinkles and grey hairs lol) perhaps you can find something of value in it.

    If you want to wait until you are in a steady relationship (ie in love) to finally do the deed or just be with a cool girl that you trust – my hat is off to you and you will probably find this to be fulfilling. In my case I was the only guy left in my circle of friends who still hadn’t had sex…and as I saw the big 30 approaching I can’t tell you how many nights I would sit awake terrified that I’d get run over by a bus the next day and die a virgin (I hope you guys aren’t doing that too…but if you are, I understand!). And having family members say “well it’s no big deal, just wait till you get married!” really didn’t help considering they all started having sex in their teens (fuckers!!!…hmm…quite literally…damn it all anyway!!!).

    In my case I finally threw in the towel (or stopped using one rather) and jumped into bed with the first girl who was willing. It didn’t go so well and she ended up being a nasty cold-hearted bitch who tried to take advantage of my weakness (dated her for a while after this…big mistake) but I did learn a few important things I’ll pass along to you:

    1) If you just want to get laid and pass on being in love – don’t tell the girl you’re a virgin! Or anyone else that doesn’t need to know. I used to alternate between telling anyone who asked (many of whom didn’t believe me and called me a liar) and crafting up stories about the 3-5 mythical women that I had sacked just to keep some of my dickhead friends from finding out my big secret. If the girl is a bitch, trust me…she can and will use this knowledge against you. In my case – I didn’t tell her and guess what…she HAD NO IDEA! This brings me to #2.

    2) It may surprise you but a lot of guys out there lie through their teeth about how good they are in bed. As I said above I didn’t say a word to the first who finally broke me in – I just plunged right in! My experience previous to this had been getting to 3rd base with a gf in college in which I got my hand inside her panties and at least felt her lady parts and some pretty encouraging dry humping (and lots of boob fondling) but she cut me off after that (natural red head too…sigh…if I could only have seen that thing)…sigh again…sorry…got distracted…LOL. 😉

    Ahem…my point here guys is…there are a lot of men who suck in bed and chances are if you do some things right the girl may not even know. This brings me to point #3.

    3) If you are just going for sex to get it over with…do what I did – go down on the girl first and do so with gentle conviction for at least 30+ minutes. Read some sex books first and learn where the clitoris is (she will really appreciate this) and even though you will be saying to yourself OMG THIS IS A REAL VAGINA during most of it – just focus on her and pay attention to her reactions. If she’s smiling, happy, moaning and all that good stuff – congrats, you’ve done well! 🙂

    4) Which brings us to one very important piece of advice…nothing that I know of can prepare you for the actually penetration part. Well I suppose unless you were raised in India by a group of Tantra masters who have trained you in some secret knowledge…however since the chances of such a guy still being a virgin in his late 20s is probably one in eleventy-billion you will most likely be like the rest of us schmucks and end up doing the Quicker Than Al Bundy 30 Second Waltz. Don’t feel too bad…it will get better with a little practice…and in my case even with this the girl still didn’t know. The conversation went something like this the next day:

    Her: “You seemed really nervous last night. What happened? Everything else before that was wonderful…”
    Me: “Well what did you expect? I mean since I was…you know…*cough* *cough).”
    Her: “Umm…WTF?”
    Me: “You know…I didn’t exactly know what I was doing because I was a…come on, you’re a woman, you know these things…”
    Her: “Uhh…like I said…you did somethings really well honey…but I still don’t get what you mean with all of this winking, nudging and staring at the floor like a puppy.”
    Me: I tell her everything. She’s my first…etc etc
    Her: JAW HITS THE FUCKING FLOOR!
    Her again: She’s hysterical…thinks I might be lying…it takes me a good 5 minutes to explain to her with a stern locking of eyes that I’m not lying. She has indeed just busted in a now no-longer virgin.
    Her: “But…no way…sorry this is so damn awkward. I’ve never been with a guy your age who was a virgin…crap I’ve never been a virgin period…this is all so new to me!”
    Me: “That’s my line! And by the way…how could you not tell when I barely lasted 15 seconds the first time!!”
    Her: “Sweetie…do you have any idea how many men are really bad in bed? Trust me…I had no idea…especially with that tongue of yours!”

    5) My final bit of advice here…some women…especially those that do not love or respect you can and will try to manipulate the hell out of you once they find out. But guess what? You’ve spent many years as an adult being celibate and trust me…that takes a lot of strength and balls. What some may perceive as a weakness is your greatest strength gents and never forget that! In my case the afore mentioned girl tried to pussy whip me and control my life and after just a few weeks of her crap I dumped her and never looked back. She wasn’t happy and never thought in a million years that I would do so. People who are constantly in relationships may never realize that they are codependents and have never gone more than 5 minutes without someone they can date or at least use as a fuck buddy. Guys like us know better…so good luck to you if I may also pass on something my late father once told me:

    “A piece of ass is nice son, but don’t kill yourself trying to get it!” 😀

    • That was an awesome comment. Losing my virginity is not quite the main goal for me. Finding someone to be in a relationship is the real goal. The sex part will just be a happy by-product of that. Nobody knows I’m a virgin unless I tell them, and I haven’t told anybody. Except for the people who read this blog, of course.

      • Right on man. I applaud you for wanting a relationship and all that goes with it instead of just sex. Believe me what I did was one of the bigger mistakes in my life so I just try to find the good in it now. Oddly enough I’m in the same boat myself all these years later – I want a meaningful relationship and love first…and the rest can come when it’s meant to. 😉

    • As a female, this comment made me smile. I am still young, so I have male friends that are still virgins and they all have their own reasons. But this was some great advice! As a virgin, I felt this advice could be read and taken into consideration for females as well. And by the way that girl sounds awful! As a red head, this comment made me crack the hell up!! 🙂

  4. First, to the blogger whose site I am now visiting, thank you for the like.

    Second, to commenter Dave: your story was very touching. It was! It reminds me that the love-of-my-life was 26 when he lost his virginity to me. I think he would deny it, but I know better. To get things in perspective I am a heterosexual female 🙂

    Thirdly, I haven’t gone through the rest of this blog yet but since I plan to do just that and I haven’t the time to read through it at the moment, I am following.

  5. Hey, just started to read this today – what a great blog! So refreshing from to hear from someone who wants a meaningful relationship before they launch into the physical side of stuff. I have my own issues going on too, obviously but it’s great to hear some of my own thoughts about this stuff articulated so well. I think I’m probably a couple of years away from where you are now though. I hope things with K work out well.

  6. Thanks for sharing your stories, I’m excited to read more of you blog! I’m 26 and recently lost my virginity (my blog is character I write as rather than my real personality) and I find it inspiring to see someone be open about it. I was much more anxious and neurotic about my virginity. And finally having sex has calmed some of my relationship intimacy issues, but overall life is very similar to what it was before.

  7. Hey man, just wanted to say as a 32 year old virgin woman, I enjoyed reading your posts and I would never be appalled to meet a man and have him tell me he was a virgin too. I don’t know why women would be so off-put by that, I mean so what? Just means a guy has higher standards and isn’t going to compare you to his ex. I think it’s kind of adorable, truth be told.

    I’m kinda coming from the opposite end of the problem…I get lots of offers for dates from guys, but I’ve never met a guy I really like, or at least enough to tear myself away from my work, to which I’m so devoted that I have little interest in meeting anyone. But I’m always hopeful I’ll meet a nice guy eventually, and I’ve been on dating sites before, but after getting about 30 messages a day that all start with “Yo gurl” and end with “we’d be so real together like ur my destiny gurl n I like 2 type like this is a txt msg even tho i hav a full keyboard n front of me”, I just gave up. It’s true women get flooded with messages on dating sites, but 75% of them are just the spray-and-pray technique of machine-gunning messages to as many girls as possible to “boost the odds.” No one likes to think they’re being messaged just to increase the percentage of success. The other 25% are guys who want to declare you their soul mate after two emails and are already shining up that big fancy pedestal to put you on when they meet you in person, only to get pissed when they eventually find out you’re a flawed human being like everyone else. I speak from experience.

    I keep my virginity to myself most times, not because I’m ashamed, but because everyone who hears about it assumes there’s something awful or wrong with me. “How can YOU be a virgin?” people have asked. “You’re super hot! You can get laid like, TONIGHT! Are you a lesbian? I bet you’re actually a lesbian, try sleeping with women, that’s probably it.” Like the only people in the world who are virgins are either forced to be by circumstance or religion, or so deep in the closet they’re having a fistfight with Mr. Tumnus.

    My point is, don’t stress it. You seem like a nice, competent, intelligent, not-shitheaded guy, and soon enough you’ll meet someone and it’ll be no biggie. Also I don’t see why people put such a big freaking emphasis on losing one’s virginity, it’s like JESUS, I’ll get to it when I get to it, it’s not a big deal. Oh my god what if i die a virrrrrrginnnn! And what if I die before ever getting to try nutella waaaaaaaaaaafffles!

    Actually that latter one would be a legitimate crying shame. Try nutella waffles. Do it now before a bus runs you over.

    Also sorry to hear about your dad, that must be incredibly hard for you. Hope things go better for you, I really mean that. Thumbs up for a better year in 2014, dude.

    Also if you’re in the Philly area any time soon, hit me up and we’ll do a virgin-duo pub crawl sometime! Wear shady hats, talk like russian spies, pass secret parcels across the bar, the works. No one will suspect us.

    • Haha, sounds good to me. Although I’m not really much for bars and pubs – perhaps we could get together and go bowling? And thanks for being a reader!

      PS – I have not tried Nutella waffles yet. At least that’s one thing I can be sure of accomplishing before I turn 30!

  8. I don’t actually like bars either, I don’t much like to drink, but I just assume normal people like them XD A pub crawl sounds like what all them popular kids do, or so Facebook has led me to believe!

    I would actually like to bowl, or go to the DAMN AQUARIUM. I have been meaning to go to an aquarium for the last 10 years, and there’s one right by me in Jersey, and for some reason I never ever get around to it! I wanna get my fish-looking on.

    That or the zoo, but it’s way too cold for the zoo. Even the Philly zoo, which is arguably awesome in all weather.

  9. Hey man, listen to my story and you wont feel as bad. I am 39, just about to turn 40 and I didn’t have sex until I was 36 or so. It was because I became so desperate that I had to do something and I just went through with it with vigor and aggressiveness until I met someone not so great online and did what I had to do. My earlier part of life was filled with problems, my family was always relocating so I never really met any “real” friends and don’t really have any friends to this day. However, I was involved in sports in high school and this one girl who was a friend of a “friend” wanted me so bad that I guess she joined the team I was on, much to my dismay. I say this, not because she wasn’t good looking, because really she was pretty hot, but because she wasn’t what I was truly looking for. Her being on the same team as me in high school just made things worse and nothing came of it. She probably hated me immediately but she seemed to be all about the team we were on, when it was something that I didn’t want to do, but had to do because my family made me do it. Anyway, to make a long story short, I had about 4 girls from the age of 15 to 22 that were interested in me and I could have gotten with and were good looking (because they have to be at least good looking in my book) that just were not my type or what I was looking for. When I was 22, I moved to a cabin in the middle of nowhere and unfortunately became a hermit because I got in trouble with the law (2 DUIs) and lost my license. So for the next 8 years, I had no car and really no way of getting around except to hitchhike and take public transit. I got in trouble a few more times, for various offenses until I moved to my uncle’s in Florida to get my license back and try to start a new life. That didn’t work out, and 3 months later I found myself at home again. When I was 27, I found some girl online, who was willing to go on a date, but apparently I said something wrong to her and she shut me out. Sounds oh so familiar? Well, fast forward to 36 years old and I finally found another girl, who was not at all who she appeared to be on the online photos, but I was desperate and needed to do it. So I did it with her for 2 weeks and it was over. I didn’t like her and she probably knew it. Anyway, here I am today at 39, almost 40 with nobody, not even friends. I am not a loser, although I have been lazy in life, I admit. I just have been displaced, very unlucky and have been through many, many, many difficulties in life to the point where I have tried to take my life several times. Now, I deal with depression related mental problems/ back problems, and as hard as it is, I am very shy. I have a hard time trusting people because of things I went through growing up, although I wouldn’t call it social anxiety because I can talk to people and I can be pretty hilarious from time to time. You should not judge others just because they don’t conform to your imbedded societal standards of elitism. I am in school now and have a degree and am working on my bachelor’s. I am also an artist (painting and metal art) and have a variety of other interests. Anyway, I don’t usually do this, but I thought I would tell my story even though I don’t like social media too much. You’ve just got to look to the future, because tomorrow is all you have.

  10. Oh and one more thing…..if you get to be 39 like me, there is a really nice place you can go here in Cali if you save your money up…..I personally have not been there yet, and no I’m not going to tell you where. :(=

  11. Ok, let’s see…..California from a realistic perspective is beautiful. The weather is beautiful, the girls are beautiful and the people are beautiful. It is of course, the most cultured state and it is a zoo of people from all walks of life who are accepted without discrimination or violence. Starting off my perspective I will say what I think is generally true is that people here measure others based on money, success and to a degree looks. For me, I grew up in a middle class/lower middle class family which to what I like to call “California standards” is poor. I have been poor my whole life and since I grew up in a particularly affluent suburban area in the East Bay Area, I already had that to my disadvantage. There was a time, that I feel that people here felt California was a paradise and everyone partied together and had fun, but for however much of that there was….by the turn of the millineum people were completely disillusioned with all that. Now it is just like anywhere else, but faster, more disorganized (especially for poorer people) and with much more crime and murders than most other places in the nation. Don’t be deceived about all the things you may hear about out here benefitting the “different” people or minorities, because they are always in shambles and never last or get switched around a lot. People here tend to analyze everyone to extreme degrees and always try to have the upper hand in everything. Women are like inherited possessions to the rich men who grew up as neighbors (this ALWAYS seems to be the case) to the most beautiful girls. When trying to even make friends with people, I almost always get “I already have enough friends”. It seems that I got like blacklisted somehow early growing up here, since I definitely can’t seem to meet anyone of my culture (I will say I am a goth). I am overwhelmingly convinced that I probably will not find the girl of my dreams, especially at my age, but I do my best to remain hopeful. Anyway, there you go…..in answer to your question.

  12. Hey, in response to what you wrote on the home page about online dating sites, I will let you know that a lot of profiles on these sites are fake and sometimes they are people who are trying to scam you either for money or for kicks. Just to let you know.

  13. Actually, I was referring to a place in Nevada. From what I’ve seen the girls are beautiful, but pricey. Too much for my broke ass to afford 😦

  14. Hey, maybe we should hit that place up sometime. I know you would like to work up a good sweat from the ladies there.

  15. I am nearly 25. The women I am attracted to either are busy with school or have boyfriends at the moment (which means I will have to wait a while).

  16. Indeed. The sad thing is when they will be attracted to guys like me, it will probably be 10-15 years and I might be married by then, but who knows. I am a virgin as well and I have not had much luck with women as far as dating. I had a LDR over a year ago, but my ex ended up being abusive.

  17. Hey TUVM,
    Recently came across your blog. I’m a 32-year-old male virgin who’s also begun to try OKCupid.

    You’re an extremely rare find; (thankfully!) not one of the delusional misogynistic “incel” types, not a stereotypically obese Milton-from-Office-Space-type computer programmer plagued by social anxiety; an (apparently) relatively well-to-do and not insane man who, for reasons I can appreciate, happens to be a virgin.

    As a fellow virgin (who’s had to endure this a little longer than you), I can say that I’m extremely grateful to have come across your blog. For understandable reasons, male virgins struggling with this seem to prefer angry, hate-filled circle-jerks and self-loathing/pity and a self-flagellation/trial-by-fire attitude to this problem rather than seeking help and discussing this like cool-headed adults.

    Like you, I like I think I’m a pretty decent-looking and reasonably successful person; I have two Bachelors degree and am currently in medical school. I’m also an exercise-addict (5k races, bodybuilding). I can definitely relate to not fitting the stereotype of what a ~30-year-old male virgin should look or act like; people would be shocked to find out.

    So your blog is a breath of fresh air for me.

    FWIW, some perspective and some questions…
    I’d be curious to know just how this happened for you.
    I was shy as a kid but I wasn’t *that* shy. And sex was something I was exposed to at an *extremely* young age. My parents were “free love”/hippie types; the first real book I ever read as a child was a thick, photograph-filled volume called “A Woman’s Experience of Sex,” which showed, in exhaustive detail, everything from female puberty to masturbation to sexual fantasies, loss of virginity, love, marriage, childbirth, etc. Add to that the fact that my parents had no problem having sex in front of me (while I was as young as a toddler, mind you) in various positions, locations, and leaving nothing covered by blankets… My dad also had sex with other women in front of me as well….I think it all fucked me up pretty badly. There’s other stuff; my mother was mentally ill and I’ve suffered from fairly severe lifelong depression, attempted suicide more than once (yes, I have received/am receiving treatment)…so I know why I’m a virgin. Nothing to do with a lack of understanding of female anatomy/sexuality, and certainly no lack of sex drive here (I’m latino). Just deeply, deeply personal scars.

    I’d be curious to hear more details about the “why” from you…

    I’m actually in the process of setting up a series of “appointments” with an escort who understands my situation.
    You see, I’ve never held hands, never kissed/been kissed, never had a girlfriend, never been in anything even remotely like a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship, never even been touched by another woman (except for handshakes in professional or platonic circumstances).

    I think I’m “socially smart enough” to fake some of this to have a girlfriend, but there’s no way that she wouldn’t be able to tell that something is *off* sooner or later (like I said, I don’t even know how to hold hands); and obviously she would know that I’m a virgin (that’s ultimately impossible to hide).

    And that’s the problem; I’m stuck in a feedback loop.
    I can’t be in a relationship because the fact that I’ve never been in a relationship would be too shocking/a turn-off/creepy/humiliating, and I’ve never been in a relationship because I can’t be in a relationship because the fact that I’ve never been in a relationship….you get the idea.

    Spending time with an escort (vastly cheaper than a sexual surrogate) would not only let me gain enough experience to make me just as capable of physical intimacy as (if not better than) everyone else; it would also allow me to truthfully tell a prospective partner that I’m not a virgin.

    And ultimately, like you, I just want a loving relationship, not a hookup.

    So the point of seeing an escort is to be able to know how to handle physical intimacy, to gain that invaluable experience and fundamental comfort level (ie so that I don’t prematurely ejaculate the split second a woman even so much as touches me in an intimate way) and so that I can actually be *good* at physical intimacy; good at pleasing my partner; good at being a lover.

    After over a decade of pondering this, I don’t see any other way.
    ….so I’m extremely curious just how the hell you’re going to deal with this issue with someone you meet on OKCupid..???
    How can you possibly be honest about this with a prospective partner?? And how will you handle physical intimacy without humiliating yourself (and freaking out your partner)?

    I’ve actually been bold enough to broach the subject with female acquaintances (ostensibly about other “male incels”; like I said, nobody would remotely suspect that I’m a virgin, they just think I’m a workaholic dedicated to my career and that I “have no time for dating right now”); though they’re different ages and come from a variety of different backgrounds, they’ve been absolutely unanimous in how they respond to this: Being a male virgin past the age of 30 is extremely creepy, a gigantic turn-off (they want someone who “knows what he’s doing in bed/is experienced and knows how to please a woman), and one of them even said that she’d be afraid he was a pedophile. I’ve asked how they would counsel a female friend who was thinking about meeting a 30-year-old virgin she met online; every single one of them (without exception) told me she would advise against it.

    • BTW, that’s the nice part about being good-looking, relatively successful, and sociable enough to have good-looking female friends. People assume so naturally that I’m not a virgin, that they easily tell me truthful statements like those above (rather than offer pity, sympathy, and tell me what they think I want to hear).

      Of course, being in this situation is painful enough that I would trade everything to be ugly and poor with woman who loves me….

    • Omg, your parents are on the other side of the nuthouse category as far as extremists. I known some extreme right wing parents on the other side. How the hell could they do that to you at such a young age (have sex in front of you), etc? Why the hell would they give you that adult book on sexuality at such a young age?? They should have given it when you were in your teens for sex ed. My mom got me a similar book on sex ed when I was in my teens. Your parents are really nutty and messed up.

    • Well, first of all thank you for your comment and thank you reading my blog! Hmm.. the thing is, I just really don’t have a “why” when it comes to me being a virgin. I’ve just never had opportunities to change that. I’ve never met any girls who were interested or available or both. For me, I don’t really view it as a “problem” but merely just a matter of unfortunate circumstance. I just don’t worry about what a prospective partner would think about it. Any girl that freaks out about it is probably not somebody I’d be going out with in the first place. Besides, there’s no guarantee that guys with more experience are better lovers. Do you know how often I’ve heard women complaining about guys not knowing how to please them? And those guys aren’t virgins. I’m pretty confident I can find my way around a woman’s body. Besides, I don’t fit the stereotypical 30yo virgin profile. So I’m not worried. 😀

      Wow, that’s really messed up with your parents. And I don’t mean to make light of anything, but you did just give the title of a book that I really want to check out now…

      • What bothers me is how men who are virgins are often slammed so viciously for lacking experience in ONE area. Just one area. There are also really nasty stereotypes of virgin men, including mama’s boys, basement dwelling young men with neckbeards or young men who are afraid of women. I know plenty of non virgin men who are really immature and not grown out of their frat boy immaturity levels probably because of their over-inflated ego over getting laid, similar to the OP’s ex friend Charlie. Being a virgin doesn’t mean that I am still a boy like the 40 Year Old Virgin portrays virgin men. But I really dislike the nasty stereotype that men in their mid twenties and older who are still virgins “somehow have something wrong with them.” I personally have nothing to brag about and have no ambition to. Being devirginized probably wouldn’t change anything over night other than the fact of me not being a virgin.

      • “I just don’t worry about what a prospective partner would think about it. Any girl that freaks out about it is probably not somebody I’d be going out with in the first place.”

        Interesting. I look forward to seeing how that works out for you (and thanks for the blog posts!)
        I’m fairly confident that if the girls you were dating knew at the outset that you were a virgin…they absolutely wouldn’t be dating you in the first place, no matter how attractive you were. …Unless you’ve made that clear in your profile?

        While I’m also a virgin, my perspective is that when the time comes (and the rate you’re going, it will soon), and the physical intensity between you makes it clear that sex will happen…she *will* freak out when she knows. But sex is one of those things that typically doesn’t just *shut down*; there’s a certainly hormonal threshold, a point of no return.

        Once she’s decided that she wants to have sex with you, she’ll rationalize away the fact that she would never have given you the time of day if she knew you were a virgin to begin with; she’ll probably eventually say something silly like “Aw, that’s cute.” The problem is that that changes the sexual dynamic; she can’t help but pity you and feel like she’s “helping” you. That’s nice, but she will NEVER respect you the way she would respect a non-virgin; you’ll always be a little puppy who she saved.

        Not a big deal if you’re just looking to lose your virginity (and not a fulfilling long-term relationship), but I’m just offering some perspective for whatever it’s worth.

        Also;
        “Do you know how often I’ve heard women complaining about guys not knowing how to please them?”

        No shit.
        According the CDC, less than 4% of men your age are have not had “sexual contact”; by the time you reach 30, it’s less than 2%.[1]
        Non-virgin men being worthless lovers is the norm not the exception (and more sex =/=.better at it; women typically either put up with the bad sex and don’t care to teach or they move on).
        Faking orgasms is the norm for women.

        Many men who think they ARE good lovers (and most men do) think that “good sex” for her means just the extra step of a few awkward tongue-flicks of the clitoris (as if muff-diving is little more than paying the toll to mount) before you hop on top of her and pump away for ~2-3 minutes.
        The best sex is a multi-faceted physical experience of which penetration is only a part; ideally, it should involve every inch of her body.

        “I’m pretty confident I can find my way around a woman’s body.”
        You’re obviously thoughtful and intelligent enough to make good on this. I believe in you…just make sure you’re challenging yourself in the masturbation sessions so that you don’t ejaculate too soon. Being a virgin, I can only assume that premature ejaculation could potentially be a serious problem when the real thing happens.

        Good luck.

        1. Chandra A, Mosher WD, Copen C, Sionean C. Sexual behavior, sexual attraction, and sexual identity in the United States: data from the 2006-2008 National Survey of Family Growth. Natl Health Stat Report. 2011;(36):1-36.

      • “but you did just give the title of a book that I really want to check out now”
        http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/385724.Woman_s_Experience_of_Sex

        I doubt you’d really be interested. It’s not really a “sex book,” not a guide…and it’s written by a hippie/naturopath. It’s really a psychological perspective on what it’s like to grow up as a female (from childhood to adulthood and up to motherhood). It’s mostly benign hippy-type shit. There is some weird stuff about how to cope with gang-rape fantasies though…

      • “I’m pretty confident I can find my way around a woman’s body.”

        Lol. UV, if you’re with an adult woman, you shouldn’t *have* to find your way around…she should already know what she likes and be able to tell you what to do/where to go.

    • Hi Demian, I’ve read too much and I’m in too deep. I am a hero of the virgins- just hear me out. You seem like a guy capable of connecting with a great lady. These other ladies who shun a guy because he is a virgin- they are short-sighted and missing out. I really think you have something amazing to offer, and getting with an escort can make you vulnerable to unwanted STD’s that would soon be shared with whoever you wanted to actually begin your relationship with. It really doesn’t take an escort to gain these things– it takes that relationship. I wish I could find some ladies for ya to just go and dive in and start and continue that relationship with guys like you. It really is a beautiful process. I went through that (lost my virginity to- just before I turned 25) with my guy who also lost his virginity with me- at 23. Honestly, I didn’t even know if we could penetrate because he just didn’t seem to fit more than 1/3 of the tip of the head. We did practice something else though- rubbing together- that gave me my first out-of-body experience with an orgasm. With some natural lubrication it turned out it slid in after all. And it just kept getting better. I really wish for this kind of blossoming *with* the partner for more people such as you. I mean, that escort would have shared something very sacred with you- and I would hope she would know in her soul what that was… but more than that, I would hope for the lady you’re with to be able to go through that with you… it is a beautiful journey. I really wish you well. I know there must be some lady out there you’re attracted to that would be welcoming of being with a virgin male… and perhaps being with him for life?
      All the best ❤

      • @iwillexpressnothing

        Isn’t it interesting that that the precious anonymity of the internet allows us to somehow see more of the humanness in strangers?…that were able to empathize with them and bare our intimate lives so casually?… Thanks for baring some of yours. The insight is appreciated. Good that your first sexual experience entailed mutual orgasm (with an inexperienced virgin partner, no less!); I presume that this is not typically the case for women.

        If you’re curious…
        …according the CDC (above reference), in 2008, 3.4% of women age 25-29 in the U.S. had never engaged in any “sexual contact” (defined as oral, vaginal, or anal sex) with an opposite-sex partner. Importantly, this *includes women who self-identify as homosexual*, so the actual percentage for heterosexual women is considerably smaller (though not available in the data). The corresponding percentage for 25-29 year old males is 3.8%. For males in my age group (30-35), it goes down to 3.1%.

        Are you and your partner still together? How did things work out between you?

        Also, had you ever had oral sex (giving and/or receiving) before the age of 25?…that would make things a little different in terms of percentage.

        One thing that leaves me extremely perplexed (and likely reveals my personal inexperience) is that you would *think* that there would be more *vaginal intercourse* virgins than *oral sex* virgins… In other words, I would’ve been positive that more adults had previously had experience with oral sex than vaginal intercourse….
        And this is true among teenagers, just like you might think! Higher percentages of teenagers have engaged in oral sex than vaginal intercourse….but strangely, that reverses in *both men and women* after age 20! For every age group after 20, for both men and women, there are more oral sex virgins than vaginal intercourse virgins….and it’s not even close!

        For example, at age 25-29, for both men and women, there are *twice as many* oral sex virgins than vaginal intercourse virgins! And this remains consistent throughout every age group thereafter…

        Hard for me to make sense of that. Surely most people see oral sex as *less intimate* than penetrative vaginal intercourse?…

        Anyway, not that any of this has any personal relevance for me (other than to satisfy my deep fascination with the innate beauty of human beings and the range of their experiences). I’ve never even been touched in a romantic/intimate way let alone had any sexual contact.

        Your kind perspective is very much appreciated, but I really have no choice other than to see an escort. In fact, after reflecting on this, I foresee the rest of my life punctuated by the occasional escort visit; there are no meaningful romantic relationships in my future, no significant other, nothing like that. I constantly hear “never say never,” but when I read about 50-60 year olds dating each other via websites the way TUVM is right now, I can’t help but shudder in terror.

        I think intimate (and meaningful!) romantic relationships are an intrinsic part of being human, ultimately necessary for well-being…but honestly, the modern world’s dating carousel has always struck me as soulless and revolting. I lived in Manhattan for a while, and every single person I knew was polyamorous, self-obsessed, ice-cold, and as superficial as a billboard; all men and women are basically Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. Friends were disposable and so were lovers…people reduced to bubble gum to sate your temporary impulse and then to be spit out for a fresh piece. And the worst part is that everyone is totally cool with it!

        So if I could never even be into “dating,” how in the hell would I ever be in a relationship?…unless someone suddenly declared their love for me? Heh, not happening. I’m fine with it. OK, maybe not. Nothing to be done about it anyway. At least I can promise you that I won’t end up marrying some video game character or something (like the poor pathetic male virgins in Japan are starting to do)….

        I have to admit, there’s something REALLY weird to me about all these women (yourself included) coming out of the woodwork here who seem to think that male virginity is *adorable and cute* or that it’s somehow a desirable quality. If it’s sincere (and I assume it is), then I guess it’s just an indication of how fed up women are with typical modern men these days (ie unsolicited sexting, dick pics, harassment etc).

        Who knows? Maybe male virginity or lack of experience will be seen as desirable in the near future? If so, I actually don’t think that would be a good sign of the current state of affairs…

        Regardless, I’ve resolved not to lie, and to be completely open and honest about it (if it ever comes up). It’ll be interesting to see how people react.

  18. I would say I am decently good looking. I am a straight 25 year old male virgin in every sense of the word. Never been kissed, had sex, held hands, made out, fondled, cuddled, none of that. I have been sidelined for being shorter and leaner than the stereotypical dude during high school and beginning of college and had encounters of bullying from both guys and females. I heard stories in college of people having sex. I felt at the time I was missing out, but looking back, I realized the people it was probably a blessing in disguise. I could have been mocked for my sexual inexperience and ineptitude, or contrasted to other dudes’ performance. I had an instance where this one female (one year older) who I got to know as a friend at the time (not any more) bragged to me about her boyfriend’s body and cuddling positions… She ended up sidelining me through cruel put-downs because I was a more sensitive guy. She would have friend dates every day (she initiated it), then later ditched me a few months later by saying nasty words like “with a friend!” if I came by to say hi to her. When during a movie in which she invited me to, I cried during an emotional scene, she treated me like garbage by giving me a mean stare and dismissed my feelings. She also dismissed me in class when I was nervous during a presentation and she gave me rude stares of annoyance, disappointment and boredom. It’s weird, since she initially showed interest and before the time she told me she had a bf, she seemed interested in me, commenting on my facebook photos and initiating friend dates. She also compared my personality to that of her boyfriend during her first friend date with me. She also grilled my body for it being thin and lean, as opposed to being ripped like her boyfriend at the time, since I do martial arts (I do taekwondo, not that macho MMA UFC drivel) (which she also before loved to talk onn and onn about her boyfriend’s love of MMA)… Andd as you guess, her friend dates droned on and onn as she talllked about her boyfriend all. the. friggin. time and bragged about other guys on the side. She also had a rather young view of love (Disney “prince charming”, buff, confident, tall, ruggedly handsome). Luckily I ditched the bitch after she treated me like crud in a bathroom sink… (Notice how ditch and bitch rhymes :P) Oddly enough it was HER who said how children can be cruel and college kids can be immature… I was told in college that “girls like guys with confidence” I am confident in my ability to be myself and to be straightforward and honest. I missed out a lot in the stuff most guys my age have been doing for years and years. I am not sure how to initiate it without feeling awkward. I would prefer to kiss, cuddle and hold hands with a female before anything more. I prefer to get to know her, than a disgusting fuck and chuck some guys do to women. I am INFJ borderline INTJ personality type. So yeah, I am that quarter century old guy with no actual dating experience except an online dating ex who ended up being abusive emotionally and verbally. I had been stood up in college when asked some females out, though the more successful ones were friends dates per say. I am working on appreciating myself more before getting back into the real dating scene. One time when I visited my old college, this freshman started bragging about his “experiences” to me after an acquaintance introduced me to him… Where is humility, eh? lol. The best female I met in college has a really friendly, upbeat, kind, cheerful and assertive personality. .

    • I notice that, in your very long post, you never refer to women as “women”, only as “females.” I can tell you right off the bat that as a woman, that raises HUGE red flags with me. The only people I know who ever consistently refer to women as “females”, as if we’re some animal species, are misogynists and creepy MRA weirdos who are bitter about women, think that we’re all just bitches who are dating jerks instead of Nice Guys like them, that we need to be put in our place, etc. A quote from the below article I linked: “As commenter Froderick Fronkensteen writes, ‘It’s a very subtle way of turning people into a biological category; it’s used often with a tone or context of contempt for women.'”

      Seriously guy, read your post. You dehumanize women by only ever referring to them as “females”, while males get the terms “men”, “guys”, “boys”, “dudes”, etc. I have a strong feeling that you’re not being “sidelined” by women just because you keep meeting mean ones, but because you also give off some really hostile vibes without knowing it. Most men who are angry towards women don’t know they’re doing that and think they’re perfect gentlemen in person, when they’re actually sending out angry or judgmental signals unconsciously. But it’s a vicious cycle…you don’t get any action from women, so you get bitter, which they can sense and thus makes them avoid you, which in turn makes you bitter, etc.

      You may argue with this (and possibly will), but I just gotta reiterate: you never even refer to women AS women, as if they’re people. Only as “females”, even where it might be very awkward to do so in conversation. EVERY time. The phrases “guys and females”, “asked some females out” and “this one female” are sending out this message: you don’t think of women as people, but as a category, a thing, not to be related to as a fellow human, but to be treated differently. Whether you MEAN to send out that signal or not is irrelevant. If you’re doing it, women aren’t going to want to date you.

      It’s a BIG red flag to most women. You may think you only talk that way online and totally say “women” in real life, but even if you do, I bet you’re giving off other bad signals.

      Reading this may help you, and possibly you can use it to pick up on other traits that may be driving women away:

      http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/02/is_calling_a_woman_a_female_offensive.html

      http://jezebel.com/5613279/men-who-refer-to-women-as-females-rarely-meet-my-approval

      Hope this helps you. Remember that when you use certain words in your head, even if you don’t mean to be offensive with them and you don’t say them out loud, the vibes are still there and can be felt by those around you. The words we use in our heads can unconsciously affect how we act. Don’t give off hostile vibes that are driving the ladies away! 🙂

      • While there might be other legitimate “red flags” (though I can understand and relate to bitterness and anger; in my case it’s just self-directed), I think those articles are nothing but an example of confirmation bias. The emperor has no clothes. If he said “girls” instead of “women,” some might find it equally offensive (eg “Here we go again with the constant infantilization of women!!!”)

        I can’t speak for eoylus, but I use and prefer the terms “males” and “females” myself, not just because I come from a science/medical background, but because they’re usually better terms when referring to people my age (30-ish) and younger, who I don’t necessarily see as mature adults or kids either. And after all, pardon the gender normativity, we *are* males and females! Those terms are perfectly accurate and totally reasonable. Do we REALLY want to add the word “female” (from which such wonderful words as “femininity” and “feminine” derive) to the list of “triggers”??

        If we replace “female anatomy” with “woman anatomy,” trans/cis/polygender people will get their shit hot too. We need to stop the uptight censorship. Really. Can’t you see how freaky and 1984-ish this is becoming?? I might be sympathetic to censorship if it served some greater good, but it’s not clear to me that that’s the case (in fact, I think it only leads to bitter “females” and even more bitter “males”, while both genders get lonelier, more socially isolated, and make fewer meaningful interpersonal connections; we don’t even know our next-door neighbor’s first names anymore for fuck’s sake).

        The rising “incel” epidemic (both “males” and “females”) is a perfect example of where society is heading. Not a good place, unless you like the fact that your children and grandchildren will be marrying video game characters in virtual worlds, having sex with increasingly life-like robotic versions of “real dolls”, and falling in love with AI (ala “Her”) all while popping an assortment of pills to cope with their loneliness and depression.

        You’re bothered by the fact that “female” carries an implicit allusion to animals; and I agree with you. But I think that’s appropriate!! We *are* animals. We’re not angelic blank slate snowflakes. Each of us are hard-wired to want certain things from the opposite sex (again, pardon the heteronormativity); we’re hard-wired to form long-lasting bonds. Speaking of heteronormativity, your gay friends can relate to that hard-wiring; that’s why they so desperately want the right to marry.

        I grant that there’s a normal distribution of what will fulfill human beings (ie TUVM doesn’t want kids; I do), but polyamory and perpetual singledom just ain’t going to cut it for most. As a result, they’re doomed to express their dissatisfaction at life in various ways; for all the misogynistic/misandristic anger out there on both sides, the same people who so loudly proclaim their disdain for the flaws of the other gender are squeezing and sobbing into their pillows at night.

        The bottom line:
        You want what your 40-years-happily-married grandparents had.
        You KNOW you do.

        And let me tell you, if you don’t find it, you will NEVER be truly happy. No matter how wonderful or world-altering your self-actualization as an adult is, no matter what you do or how many lives you touch, you will NEVER be happy without that. You will NEVER be happy alone.

        That said, as far as the “girl”/”woman” distinction, I can confirm that many older women sometimes like or prefer it when a potential partner calls them a “girl” because it’s a way of saying that they look younger than I are.

      • I wasn’t trying to give off that vibe. When I was saying females and guys, I was more casual in my manner. I love women who are caring and friendly, rather than the one who hurt me in the past. IMHO, that woman in the past who hurt me by contrasting me to her boyfriend has a lot of growing up to do and judging by her behavior, she is very young in her mind and is not very mature at all. I wasn’t at all trying to dehumanize men or women. When I am casual and in a relaxed state, sometimes I refer to women and men in that manner, but not in a manner to dehumanize them. I did not even know that referring to women as females and men as guys was dehumanizing. I think you are overreacting. I was talking about individual women, not women as a whole, as not all women are mean spirited. I talked in the end about the nice woman I met in college. There were some nice women at my college that made me feel good. However the mean women has caused me to have issues with my body image. Just like some men who call some women fat in a mean way cause them to have body image issues. I support rights of both men and women. I am vehemently against bullying of both men and women.

    • @eoylus

      “I am INFJ borderline INTJ personality type.”

      Yup, we have it slightly more difficult in areas of sex/intimacy it seems. I am a 30 year old INTJ female who only shared her virginity at age 22. So being 25, male, and still a virgin is not that weird in my opinion given your personality type. We aren’t as naturally charismatic, touchy, or sociable as the majority of other people, and we tend to be too “realistic” for most. Luckily, things *can* work out sometimes; the guy I shared my virginity with has been my FwB and sole sexual partner for the past 7 years. I’m pretty confident that you’ll find someone just as I did…it’s just going to take longer than most since we are naturally “awkward”. 🙂

      • How do I initiate FwB with a woman without scaring her? I talked to my counselor two years ago about casual sex with women at my college, but she didn’t know how I could do it, so I didn’t do it. There are women I would like to get it on with that I know and are around my age, and I am sure they are sexually experienced and could teach me the ropes, but they are taken, so I will wait until they are single before deciding on whether or not I should do it. I am not sure how I suggest a FwB to an attractive, friendly woman I know without making it awkward. I also would not want to scare the woman or women I would like to have a FwB with. So I am not sure what to do at all.

        • @eoylus

          I wish I knew something you could do or say that would allow you to initiate a FwB relationship, but I truly don’t. I can say that a big part of being FwB is the F, namely being friends with the girl rather than just a casual hookup. For example, my FwB and I were “just” friends for a little over a year before we began the “benefits” part. It wasn’t hard for us to be friends first though…I’ve always had better/longer lasting friendships with men, and especially geeky/nerdy ones. My personality type fits really well with them, and I’m not feminine so I’m not “threatening”. But in this one instance, it gradually became more since we had mutual attraction to one another. But yeah, our friendship started because of a D&D game…I guess you could say he rolled a good Initiative, lol.

          I don’t quite know what you mean about not wanting to “scare” her…unless she’s one of the types of women I talk about in my Androphobia post? In which case, I probably wouldn’t approach her. What are some of your hobbies? Are you still in college? Joining a club/group that focuses on something you are already good at or have knowledge in can really help your confidence shine through. I’ve known guys who got girlfriends simply by hanging out with them at gaming, computer, or anime clubs after class. Geek/nerd girls are usually attracted to geek/nerd guys…I don’t know enough about you to know if you’re “one of us”, but hopefully this helps.

          You can ask me anything you’d like, either here, on my blog, or by using my Contact Me page. Have a good night!

          • Thank you! I graduated from college a year ago. My hobbies are gaming, debating, simulation, weird, interesting scientific facts, ancient history reading and martial arts. I am currently in grad school. I joined some clubs online in the school website, but haven’t heard back when the club meets. Generally I am attracted to outgoing women generally who are friendly and upbeat, emotionally warm and are physically affectionate. I guess I would characterize myself as a geek, since I have my eccentric hobbies. I do like video games, mostly fantasy and sci fi games. I definitely am not too much into anime. I guess I would characterize myself as a slow cooker, as it takes me a while to get to know someone generally and to click with them. I open my shell up more when I am encouraged by women socially and given kind words of affection. Some women I guess, going to your post on androphobia have a fear of men due to negative stereotypes presented in media. Men are negatively stereotyped as sex starved, overly dominant sexually and a “pursuer”. The media glosses over the good qualities of men, such as men who are emotionally open, caring, good at listening, polite, respectful, etc. I have a fear that if I suggested a Benefits part of a Friends, that the woman friend might misinterpret my intentions and might subconsciously equate my actions to that of the extreme negative male stereotypes, whereas my intentions are more based upon good (respect and asking for mutual agreement and wanting to experiment sexually with her consent, while getting to know her better as far as her interests and personality). I just do not know how to voice it without it sounding awkward or being misinterpreted.

    • @eoylus
      So, what you really want is to initiate FwB relationships with women?
      AFAIK, online dating is essentially *TAILOR-MADE* for that. Tinder, POF, and OKCupid are all overflowing with people (mostly men) looking for casual sex. You mentioned that you’re a decent-looking guy. If you live in or close to a large city, you should have *ZERO* problems finding casual sex…the challenge, of course, is that you’re a virgin…and that may be a deal-breaker for many women. I would imagine it wouldn’t be that big a deal if you’re open about it and frame it in such a way as to possibly make it appealing (if you’re not in a trailer park collecting welfare, then “giving away” your virginity *could* be appealing to some women).

      Stuff like this always seems to work on college campuses (believe me, I know). The website is ostensibly highlighted “bad behavior,” but in reality, this is about all it takes to find a fuck-buddy (if you’re a decent-looking man and have willing to lower your standards).
      http://straightwhiteboystexting.tumblr.com/

      • I am not sure, I am sort of curious about it. Definitely with someone I know, I am not into the kind of random hookups the OP tried to initiate. I am interested in friendship before sex, as I think that people should get to know them well and see if they like and tolerate each other before having sex. I am sort of on the curious spectrum of it, but I am also not completely naive about stuff like STDs. STIs. I also want someone I can genuinely trust and like, as opposed to some of the way too forward women the OP “dated”. I have some social skills problems, so that is one of the reasons I would prefer to have it with someone who I trust. I am also trying to weigh my options as to wait until marriage to have sex or do it in a serious relationship. I had trouble in college as far as being more than just friends with a woman and was clueless as far as those romantic or sexual social skills.

    • I have NO problem with the word “females” as is! 🙂 I’m not bothered by the term female by itself. I think “males and females” is a perfectly acceptable phrase to use. It’s necessary in many places, like in scientific and medical fields, and has its place in casual use.

      My point was that the poster was exclusively using “females” every time he referred to a woman, WHILE using person-related terms like men, guys, dudes, etc for when he referred to males. He didn’t use the phrase “males and females” once. “Guys and females”, “dudes and females” “men and females”, but never “MALES and females.” He does not refer to men as males, only women as females.

      When someone mixes the terms like that and refers to men by any number of personhood terms, but exclusively refers to women with the cold, clinical term “female”, that’s a red flag to many women. It strikes the ear wrong, like someone has gone out of their way to avoid saying the usual phrases “men and women” or “girls and guys” as most people do, and instead substituted in “guys and females” or “men and females.” For what purpose? To denote that we’re different, detached, a group of sub-species? Like I said, the term ‘females’ by itself is FINE. When paired in “males and females”, it’s FINE. But this fellow was using many familiar terms for men and just “females” for women, and that’s what sounds bizarre, as if the speaker feels men deserve to be given the familiar personhood terms, but women do not. Whether or not the speaker INTENDS that meaning makes little difference. People will hear it that way. Even if they aren’t personally offended, it stills sounds really awkward. And that was this guy’s complaint, that he felt awkward in some conversations with women.

      You can give a lot of good reasons why women shouldn’t be offended, why they ought not to be offended, why YOU’RE not offended, but the point is, many women WILL be, if they hear you using many terms for men, but avoiding saying anything but FEMALES for women. I noticed it and thought it might help the poster to realize that he may be offending women without even realizing it, thus driving them away. Since he posted that he tries not to talk like that, but occasionally does in conversation, maybe this will help him see that he might be irritating women around him without even realizing it? It’s all about addressing the problems you didn’t know were getting in your way, so you can connect more with the people around you and then meet someone special. This fellow already stated that he feels awkward trying to initiate convo or dates with women…maybe this advice will take a little of the awkward phrasing out of his speech and help him get a little further in communicating with women.

      As for the rest of your post…I have no idea. I didn’t say anything about people dying alone, taking pills or avoiding relationships, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. I think maybe you’re assuming I’m some jackbooted feminist who hates men and wants to spell women with a Y and decree all physical contact as rape and check everybody’s gender privilege, which is hilariously untrue. I just wanted to let the poster know that the way he was using “females” exclusively, while using lots of familiar personhood terms for men, may be annoying the women around him and he might want to try changing that. Maybe just say either “males and females” or “men and women” in casual convo.

      So that’s all I got. Cept for this:

      “You want what your 40-years-happily-married grandparents had.
      You KNOW you do.”

      My grandmother died early. Before that happened, my grandfather drank and committed suicide when my mom was 13. Other set of grandparents did not have it much better. Even back then when “things were better”, things were not better.

      PS Eoylus: Good to hear, glad that isn’t the way you talk all the time! It can be difficult to change your speech patterns completely. But I think if you just sub in “women” when you say “men and females”, it would sounds much better and more palatable to listeners. At any rate, it’s worth a try and won’t hurt any! 🙂 I hope you have better luck communicating with women in the future. Just relax, be yourself and I’m sure you’ll do awesome!

      • It seems that I have to walk on eggshells when you post because you take my posts the wrong way. I am not intending to offend you in any way, but your remarks in my regards to commenting that my referring to women as females and men as guys is similar to the OP’s experience with this one female who recently blasted him for saying the word “friend-zone” because she thought it was misogynistic and sexist. It seems we have some communication issues because of the phrases I used and what you consider offensive versus what I consider offensive. I personally find it offensive when guys refer to women as hoes, bitches, the T word and the C word casually as it dehumanizes the women to the level of worth only of that to her vagina. Its similar when men are called pigs, bitchtits, pussies, prick and dick. It dehumanizes men just as much as the other words dehumanize and humiliate women. Men and women are human beings, yes. I support the equality of both sexes, as I said that in the last post. I personally have no problem being referred as a male. However I can see your point in that respect. Back to the OP, when he used the term friend-zone, he meant it as saying some women automatically consider him as friend material, rather than dateability material and potential boyfriend material. He in no way meant it to be offensive as he told her what was on his mind in an honest, respectful manner. Similar to me, as I was being respectful and honest and open in communicating. Generally in real life I am shy and nervous around women, esp women I really like but I open up and become more confident if they treat me very respectfully, and I would do the same for them.

      • FWIW,
        The suicide rate (and violent crime rate, for that matter) was lower preceding the counter-culture movement in the 1960s. Death by suicide surpassed death by car accident in 2009 (partly due to declining rate of vehicular fatality, but also to steadily growing suicide rate). In fact, the suicide rate increased by an astounding 128%(!!!) between 2000 and 2009.[1] Loneliness and social isolation are typically cited as reasons for suicide; in fact, the decline in marriage rate is strongly associated with the rise in suicide. Suicide rates are higher among singles and divorcees (but not widowers) than those who are currently married (which perhaps argues against marrying too quickly or carelessly but also against the same regarding divorce).

        It’s worth noting that most men make up the overwhelming majority of suicides http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm
        …and that marriage is strongly correlated with health and longevity, especially for men
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_and_health

        My point is that judgements about the way things should or shouldn’t be are only useful when looking at the big picture, not anecdotal evidence.

        I actually don’t think “more people should get married.” I think most people are bad at it (hence the divorce rate), and frankly I don’t care how people choose to live their lives or with whom they do or don’t choose to live. I think marriage is a beneficial social institution and a very desirable one that developed out of our essentially inalterable evolutionary hard-wiring.

    • @Demian

      You wrote above that Gidget wants what her “40 years happily married grandparents had”, at least before she pointed out that this scenario is a bit too idealistic in real life. So I thought, as someone who *does* have a set of grandparents who have been married for over 40 years, I’d put in my 2 cents.

      *I* personally do not want that. I would like to have friendships that last that long. I’d love for my FwB relationship to last that long(though it’s not very likely). I certainly hope that when I start my own business it is successful for at least that long.

      But I have absolutely no desire to get married, much less be married for that long. Much like UV, I also don’t want kids, though I am looking forward to being a favorite aunt someday. But to be legally bound to someone for any span of time really just clashes too much with my sense of freedom…I don’t want to have to do any of the sacrifice that seems to come with the majority of marriages. If that makes me selfish in some people’s eyes, oh well. It’s my life, not theirs. 😛

      Some of us are just different…

      • Tarnished,
        Thanks for the comment.
        You mentioned that you’re 30 and that you have an “FwB” relationship (ie; not an “SO”), and that matches up fairly well with the generational shift in cultural mores that I mentioned (I say this as someone only slightly older than you, with two separate on-campus-living experiences ~a decade apart). I suppose the women to whom I was referring are generally from an older demographic (35-40+). I have a very strong hunch that despite the abandonment of marriage in favor of casual, non-committal sex and FwB-type relationships (which your comment exemplifies), women of the near-future (eg perhaps you at ~45) will eventually feel the urge to satisfy deep, inextricable biological needs including child-rearing and the express emotional commitment of a(n apparently) responsible male partner with whom to share the rest of their adult life.

        Self-determination FTW, of course…but we are animals, and our brains are sculpted by evolution in exactly the same ways as our grandparents and great-grandparents.

        Generally speaking, men will tend towards casual sex, multiple partners, and lack of commitment…while, sooner or later, *most* (but obviously not all) women *will* feel their biological clocks ticking (which is why so many professional adult women worry about whether or not they can “have it all”; ie motherhood and career success).

        What’s changed is that women now have an unprecedented level of personal freedom and choice as far as *when* motherhood happens (as opposed to essentially having to submit to it at the very beginning of adulthood). The cost of that flexibility in the pursuit of self-actualization is that the the childrearing instinct will only be delayed, and perhaps felt more sharply and urgently considering that men generally prefer *younger* women.

        Your mention of “looking forward to being an aunt someday” signals to me that you have some kernel of that innate childbearing instinct…and that someday, you may change your mind and want a child (or children) of your own. I only suggest that for those women who do want children, FwB-type relationships (as opposed to legally-binding contracts between two adults who profess mutual love) probably won’t cut it.

        Just food for thought. Take it or leave it.

        • @Demian

          You’re welcome.

          I agree that the majority of cis gendered women actually do want to have children one day, and they do have biological clocks that many worry are ticking away too quickly. I have absolutely no grudges against women (or men) who decide to be stay at home parents. If that makes them and their families happy/prosperous, then no one should be shamed into a career if they don’t have to have one.

          It seems I should have mentioned 2 things, but then I didn’t realize I’d have to defend my childless lifestyle position. (It’s okay…I’ve been explaining my decision to people since I was 12.) I have gender dysphoria, which I talk about on some of my posts. So I already don’t think of myself as a female. Secondly, I believe a woman shouldn’t
          1. Have children after age 35, and
          2. Should decide early on in life if they are going to be a mother or a careerist. I made my decision a very long time ago that I was going to have a career instead of a family. It appeals to me a lot more, and fits well with my personality.

          As for the “being an aunt” thing, you are reading between lines that don’t exist. I look forward to being an aunt because each of my 5 younger siblings *want* kids, and I don’t mind children…so long as I can give them back after a weekend together. I am a nurturing person, but I’ll never be a mother. Taking care of 5 siblings growing up more than cured me of the desire to do it all over again.

          FwB relations are good for people like me who prefer to be a tumbleweed rather than a tree with roots. They are *not* anything I’d recommend for men and women who wish to have families. I’m glad we both see this for what it is.

      • BTW:
        I want to be clear… I don’t think that not wanting marriage is selfish at all.
        Indeed, I only think marriage is desirable insofar as it satisfies your own rational self-interest!…and usually, our voluntary sacrifices are motivated by that self-interest (ie working hard in school for the gratification of academic achievement and career and/or financial success). Indeed, the best things in life are almost always those that require sacrifice and hard work, no?

        It only makes sense to sacrifice for a relationship to the extent that those sacrifices are worth the benefit to you in terms of your own emotional fulfillment and well-being. If that’s not the case in any relationship, then you’re just somebody’s slave (and that’s not good).

        FwB relationships can be thought of as “selfish,” but so can marriage (because it only makes sense to stay in a marriage if it benefits you and aligns with your concerns and goals).

        My point is that, generally speaking, epidemiological research shows that marriage accrues physical and emotional benefits to both spouses (but perhaps especially for men) that makes it very much worth the sacrifices….the problem is that such a marriage requires careful consideration and mutual dedication (careless marriages lead to divorce, poorer health of divorcees, and lasting impacts on children).

        I realize that my lengthy posts might seem like proselytizing, but I was a writer in my first life, and just type extremely fast… My apologies.

        • @Demian

          Too true. Relationships, friendships, and careers all involve some “work” if they are worth having. Even relations that are incredibly laid back/easy going like my FwB one need a little give and take to be good for both people.

  19. Eoylus: Well I can certainly understand that, and you make a lot of good points about how something that seems insulting to one person may be innocuous to someone else.

    Do you happen to have some women friends whom you can ask about what you might do to improve your level of communication? From your description of yourself, you don’t sound at all off-putting in the looks or manners department, so maybe it’s just a matter of your speech. Maybe if you have women friends who know you better, they might be able to help you pinpoint things that are holding you back socially, and basically help you round out the way you engage in conversation so that you project a more confident attitude.

    It definitely helped me to talk to my friends awhile ago about how I talk…I have one of those voices that, no matter how quietly I speak, it sounds like I’m shouting. It’s a low, resonating voice that just fills the room at any volume, and it runs in the family. A lot of shy people i know have been put off by it, and it was only by asking them that I found out that my voice is just too loud and can sound a little intimidating. After I asked around about it, I practiced pitching my voice just slightly higher, so it’s out of that resonating range and sounds more normal, and my friends say I sound much better and I’m more approachable. 🙂 It never hurts to ask your friends for an honest evaluation! 😀

    • The person who I am crushing on is a more traditional woman (I think ESFJ). She can help me with my confidence and knowing what to say and what not to say and my speech stuff, since she is very skilled socially and can pinpoint the root cause of my social skills issues. I feel more comfortable with the ESFJ, since she is incredibly optimistic, has a positive outlook in life and is really emotionally intelligent. If I see her when visiting my old school and if she isn’t busy, I will ask her to help me out in person and tell her about my social skills issues.

  20. Thank you! 🙂 I do have a lot of problems with social stuff and my manner of speech. I do have some women friends who could help me in that department, yes. I will have to ask them and either meet with them in person, or ask them by email or facebook. My voice is rather soft, but low pitched, but I have improved my speech to sound more assertive and articulate, since I have some speech issues. My personality is a bit eccentric, goofy, geeky and quirky. My voice can be somewhat monotone because putting too much inflection strains my voice and tires me out. My mom’s voice makes her sounds like she is shouting too, since her voice is very loud. I would gladly ask my women friends on that matter and learn as much as I can. I need help with projecting confidence and I sometimes have a hard time asserting myself. My crush from my old college is much more socially adept and would give me some great advice as well as emotional support in regards to my confidence issues. She is really nice and approachable. I like the woman I am crushing on for her beautiful personality. That is definitely a bonus for her helping me in the social department. I am really glad to have someone like her in my life.

  21. Well that’s really awesome to hear! 🙂
    We sometimes don’t take enough advantage of the help our friends are willing to give us. I think asking around like you plan to do will REALLY make a big difference. And the more confident you are in how you talk, the more confident you’ll FEEL, which will make you sound even more so, and it’s just a great loop to get into. 😀

  22. Damian: FWIW, we were talking about trying to help Eoylus change the way he has conversations with women so that he a) sounds more confident and b) doesn’t accidentally alienate listeners, and then you came in yelling about my grandparents and people having sex with AI units. I will be the first to admit that I just don’t get you, bro.

    • (rolls eyes)
      eoylus mentioned that I had a “lot of good insights.” And yelling? Really? It’s hardly fair to put that label on my carefully considered (though grammatically questionable) comments above. I grant that I may have aired a little too much baggage regarding my personal life… You just didn’t like what I had to say, that’s all. Fair enough. No big deal.

      There should not be such a thing as “incels,” or the attendant testosterone-fueled misogyny (thankfully absent here). There’s a trend towards an increase in “inceldom” that will play out in the lives of our children and grandchildren, and I don’t think it’s a good thing. In fact, I think it’s officially “a bad thing” (and not just for incels, but for everybody). I am quite certain that there will be many, many more “Unfortunate Virgin Males” to come. If you don’t believe me…Japan is usually a couple years ahead of the rest of the world, right?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex
      61% of unmarried Japanese males are not in any kind of romantic relationship. Japan has the third highest suicide rate in the world (despite also having third highest nominal GDP). I realize that this is a broader sociological perspective that’s beyond the scope of comments on this blog…but that’s all there is to get about what I was saying.

  23. Well it’s definitely a much broader scope than what we were talking about, I’ll give you that. 🙂 Still not sure what incels and japanese singles statistics have to do with helping this one particular guy sound less awkward in his conversations with women, but if the link’s there for you broseph, more power to you. I don’t like to argue online, nobody ever wins and everyone’s mood drops afterward.

  24. @eoylus & Damien

    Ohhh, you know what? I agree with this advice. You could make your virginity work well for you by pointing out you are “willing to learn” what a woman likes and put a casual reminder about being STD-free. The second part is a nice truth, the first part should get the wheels turning in the minds of ladies who’ve had…*ahem*…less than adequate partners in the past. A good looking man who is essentially a blank slate in terms of sexual experience can be like candy to the right woman.

    Just be aware that some of them may be recently divorced cougars looking for fresh young men to break in…

  25. @eoylus

    I wouldn’t sweat that part too much. Everyone, even guys and girls who seem like they were born with a high charisma and lots of social confidence, were scared/awkward at one time. It just takes longer for some of us than others…again, I think personality type has a lot to do with how good we are at recognizing social cues or subtle gestures (which get lost on me too, you have to teach yourself to look for them).

    As for the wait for marriage VS have a nonmarital relationship, that’s really all your own choice. Like I explained to Demian, I haven’t ever wanted marriage, but I did eventually want sex. Ergo, I am happy with have sex with my FwB rather than a husband. If I may, I’d probably recommend having sex before marriage since your wife will probably not be a virgin. There’s numerous men online who are openly bitter/pissed that they had fewer sex partners than their wife, and it honestly comes off as being an unhealthy state of mind, especially in a marriage. You sound like a cool guy (much like UV and Demian), and it would be terrible for this to happen to you.

    Question is: Are you looking for a girlfriend, a FwB, or a wife?

    • Sadly I feel that I will never lose my virginity at this rate and will live a very lonely life, while other people experience the greatest enjoys of their lives. I also fear that if I were to marry a woman who had kids with another man in a previous marriage, I would experience self-esteem issues and compare and contrast myself to that person and will be reminded of the person’s ex, if the child resembles her ex. I do not want to be reminded that I was second place in getting a woman’s heart, to be frank. I do not want to be a person’s second or third husband and be reminded of her previous sexual history because I would feel as if I was second best.

      • @eoylus

        Sorry if you already stated this, as I’m replying using the WordPress app on my phone, but how old are you currently? I personally was 22 when I found someone I was comfortable sharing my virginity with. For boys and girls who started having sex at 16, this is pretty old and I tend to get weird looks…but for men and women who are 30 year old virgins, it’s obviously very different.

        You aren’t alone in wanting to be someone’s “first”. I personally wouldn’t date a man with children, but only because I don’t want kids…I don’t have a personality that really processes uncertainty or jealousy, they are rather foreign emotions to me at this point in my life.

        Perhaps take a moment and think about why you’d assume to automatically “second best”. How do you know she wasn’t married to a sexually selfish man who only cared about getting his own rocks off? As my commenter BroadBlogs is fond of telling me, about 2/3 of American women over the age of 19 have had ongoing sexual dysfunction and inability/great difficulty in reaching orgasm, some of which is due to inattentive or uncaring partners. Notice that I have *never* had difficulty cumming and I have a wonderful lover who is happiest making sure I enjoy sex just as much as he does. And of course I’m not a selfish person, so this means I want to reciprocate…In other words, you *could* be the greatest thing to ever happen to some woman.

        Not trying to change your mind, but it’s something to consider.

      • In my own viewpoint, 25 is not a deathknell for sharing one’s virginity. Let me ask you something…and no, I’m not being snarky or sarcastic, I truly want to know:

        Why do you want to share your virginity?

        It was never a goal for me, ever. I always assumed I’d have sex one day, but I’ve known how to satisfy myself since I was about 5 or 6, so I figured sex was very similar (when I began learning of such things at age 8 or so…my parents hid their porn and erotica, but not the encyclopedias). So I am curious to know what the motivation is behind it…Just the fact that most people eventually have sex? A feeling of being unworthy or neglected without sex? A desire to be wanted for your body? The need for physical touch? Or something else?

          • That’s great, UV. I’m working on 2 right now myself: One about the science behind scent + sexual partner choices, and a reply to another blogger’s post on whether equality is something women truly want.

            I am already looking forward to yours though. It’s not something I’ve ever seen spoken about before…hopefully others will chime in, too. I have a little more to say about it, but will wait for your post.

    • Ah, the more you share the more everything is making sense. Having a great hunger and feeling enough punishment 6 days a week will eventually teach a person to be content with auto-stimulation.

          • Of course! The male genitals are just as lovely to behold as female ones. I really enjoy seeing my lover’s penis, knowing he’s aroused and wanting sex just as much as me. 🙂

            • Haha, I did. But I was rather hoping for a more definitive how-to guide. 😀 And it’s just that I know most girls don’t really care for dick pics; they typically profess that there are much better-looking parts of the male body they’d rather see/get pictures of. Once again, you are truly unique, but in a good way.

            • *sigh* There’s just no pleasing you…lol. 😉

              I never understood *why* most women don’t like dick pics. Do they not like genitals at all? Are they disgusted by their own? I like looking at nice chests and asses too, but penises are much sexier and intimate. It’s almost like most women don’t actually want to get aroused by looking at men, they just want “eye candy”.

            • Probably because they usually aren’t pretty to look at. Mine looks okay… I guess. lol obviously I’ve never gotten anyone’s opinion on it, so I have no idea what anyone else might think. And I think a lot of it has to do with how it’s presented, i.e. how you take the photo. A photo taken in a dark room with the flash doesn’t look nice at all, compared to a photo taken in a well-lit room, almost bordering on portraiture. I saw some blogger actually posted a side-by-side comparison on her blog, and I wish I could find it again because it’s a perfect example of what I just described…

            • Well, I don’t think genitals are “pretty”. I mean, they aren’t a basket of flowers or calligraphy, after all. But something can be pleasing to the eye without needing to be “pretty”.

      • My guy loves the exchange of those kinds of pics and loves me to send them while he’s working. I imagine that if I was dating and saw hundreds of them, I might be turned off with the act because it just becomes sacrilege and less personal. If you’re crazy about someone and know they love you, it’s playful and arousing

      • @TUVM and Tarnished

        You’ve seen this, right?
        http://critiquemydickpic.tumblr.com/
        Figured it was topical. Some perspective on what makes for a good dick pic. As a male, I agree with TUVM; dicks are generally pretty ugly-lookin things; I gather that *most* (but obviously not all) women generally agree (and that they’re more attracted to other aspects of a man’s body).

  26. I am not sure, to be honest on whether I am looking for a FwB, wife or girlfriend. I am trying to weigh all the options and find the most logical and sensible solution through trial and error and experiments. I definitely want to be within that situation with someone who has similar interests, understands/tolerates my quirks and someone who I can have fun with and express myself naturally.

    • eoylus, I like your site and your thoughts. I read about the kind of lady you are comfortable with and attracted to. Have you found out what kind of ladies tend to be drawn to/attracted to you? I was stuck with only being approached by much older creepy guys who would follow me around on campus at night when I was in college. It wasn’t until I started feeling good about life and the world, about he food I ate and my body, and about my sensual life that I started to feel attractive and embrace my own attractiveness. Perhaps you are on a similar path. It wasn’t until that happened, and my personal resistance to that energy was worked on that I started seeing a lot more people feel attraction toward me. Also, I am getting that you are not as comfortable with expressing yourself, and that having a capable person to make you feel comfortable helps you. It may be something you want to work on so you are comfortable with yourself and better able to meet your own need… starting small, and making it a regular habit to talk with people doing things similar to you. It sounds like you would appreciate a supportive woman, but there needs to be some initiative coming on your part if you want her to take that role, instead of it turning into more of a mothering role- and a motherly relationship can easily kill libido for both partners. If you want passionate romance, it would require confidence you bring from within.

      • I am not sure how exactly I can gain that confidence to be genuinely honest. I tried to initiate cuddling with a female who I known from college who requested on her Facebook page that she would like to be cuddled by a guy in her dorm, since she was feeling lonely. I offered, but she turned me down, stating she only likes me as a friend. It seems that I am rejected both ways; when I initiate and when I don’t. It’s hard to feel confident when you feel kicked both ways like a lost dog. Feeling confident is only a temporary thing, as it can be easily replaced by feelings of doubt, fear, sadness, depression and anxiety. Once in college a woman stated she felt drawn to me and showed some attraction, asked about myself, my interests, she complemented my hair, my looks, and my personality, as well as we both shared stuff we were into, such as hobbies and stuff on relationships, but she had a boyfriend at the time and led me on and hurt my feelings by insulting me for being not stereotypical masculine and contrasted my behavior and body to her boyfriend at the time. It was humiliating. When I asked about her feelings, she only liked me as a friend. I also had a female seem drawn to me a few years later in college. However, I learned she only liked me as a friend despite me and her hanging out, asking about each other and sharing laughs, as well as comforting each other. However, like the other one, she said she only liked me as a friend. It seems that some of the women who are drawn to me only like me as a friend. I heard attraction goes as far as two opposite ways. One, a guy must show initiative from the start by showing his attraction or two, a man must develop his friendship with the woman before initiating a relationship. Both ways I have tried have not been successful entirely except for number two resulted in my online LDR that lasted 6 months. However when I show attraction from the start, I get shot down and told that “I come on too strongly”. When I try to show attraction after a long friendship and getting to know that person, I also get shot down and put into the friend zone.

        • I tried to initiate cuddling with a female who I known from college who requested on her Facebook page that she would like to be cuddled by a guy in her dorm, since she was feeling lonely.

          Sounds like she was interested in more than cuddling…

      • Hmm, what puzzles me is that in society, when men need to be taken care of, it is seen as “mothering” and “killing libido” whereas for women it is the opposite effect and attracts them and makes them feel protected, as so to speak. So you are saying that only men should take the initiative because men are supposed to be confident according to society, right? Hmm, that’s strange. Yes, I have tried taking that initiative, and yes I have been shot down. When I take the friends first, initiative later, I also get shot down, so its a two way street ending in the same pathway. I have always generally been rejected and treated as a freak by females since I was a boy, not all females, but some have treated me as a freak for my lack of emotional, social and romantic skills. So no, I haven’t had time to develop that confidence because my life wasn’t and still isn’t fair. I on the other hand was born also with emotional and learning disabilities and an developmental delay, which caused speech and social/emotional issues. For me to do homework in school, I had to work twice as hard as normal people in order to get an A due to my ADD. However, my confidence was shot because I was often rejected and ignored by females since I was a boy. My dad had to help me with my homework when I was younger, and no he wasn’t gentle at all. In fact, he prohibited me from going to social events until around high school and made it a priority over me finding a girlfriend/dating. Long story short, my life has been about hard, laborious work, including farm work outside, and little time for romance as well as being ignored by women for the most part. As a baby, I didn’t want to cuddle my mom and disliked it, however, when I became a toddler, I wanted to be cuddled a lot. My mom tried to teach me about how to romance women around my age, but she was incredibly smothering in her affection and told me as a child to come on strong to females when I was a kid. However, I grew out of that kind of stuff and now my mom says “just be a good friend to her” (any woman I am into or interested in dating). However my brother tells me to initiate the feelings with women first, which I told you before, haven’t worked at all much in the past at all. I joined some clubs, including a Metal Music fan club at my university, as well as a secular student alliance club. However, neither of the clubs have been giving me much info on meetings.

    • Thanks for sharing more of where you’re coming from, eoylus. You’ve been through much. It’s quite alright to develop skills later than the norm and go through life at your own pace. I’m sorry you missed out on what you actually wanted more of 😦 but you have the rest of your life to have more of what you want. I see it working best for you to be there, available, and receptive to a woman who likes feeling in control and comfortable with being forward about it. 🙂 You’ll make her feel sexy. I can see you as instilling confidence and being an excellent listener. You have a lot to offer. I think you’ve been around the wrong kind of women for the chemistry you want.

  27. My motivation for sex is a need for physical touch, a desire to feel wanted for my body, as well as feeling neglected and sometimes unworthy without sex. Also, I realize that most people have sex and I feel left in the dark. I never kissed, cuddled with, caressed, had foreplay with or sex with a woman before in my entire life. I generally envy my peers who have active sexual and intimate lives. I try masturbation, but still I feel that does not give me the pleasure and warmth of a real person. It’s only a temporary pleasure. I tried looking at porn as well, mostly educational porn on sex positions and how people act and react during sex. I feel I have a lot to offer a potential partner, as not only physical pleasure including touch, but emotional reassurance and words of affection.

    • Wow, so it’s a lot more multi-faceted than I first realized. All of these are very good reasons to want sexual relations…I just didn’t think so many would apply at once.

      Physical touch is important. Babies and small animals die without it. It is usually called “failure to thrive” or “wasting

      I don’t think about it except in regards to my lover, but I can understand wanting to be appreciated for one’s body.

      You aren’t unworthy just because you’ve never had sex, same as I wasn’t before I did.

      Masturbation *is* different than sex, but I don’t think it’s worse…in my mind, there’s no sliding scale with masturbation at the bottom and sex at the top. They are both good and valid expressions of your sexuality. I personally do not experience more physical pleasure during sex (I’m highly orgasmic, so it’s roughly the same as when I take care of myself.) But the mental pleasure I get from helping my lover cum or just pleasuring him is incredible.

      Have you never cuddled and kissed because you don’t know what kind of things she would be into?

      • I haven’t had any personal experience whatsoever hands on. It is a combo of never been kissed and cuddled because I wouldn’t know what kinds of stuff she would be into and my social ineptitude in that area. I have done research on kissing techniques and cuddling positions. I had a LDR for 6 months with a woman from another country who I met online. Since me and her didn’t see each other face to face in person, we would “kiss, cuddle, or hug” electronically. Me and her broke up over a year ago. Since then, I haven’t had a relationship. Other than that, I am clueless in that area.

      • in my mind, there’s no sliding scale with masturbation at the bottom and sex at the top

        I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone else who feels that way, especially with the mental pleasure you’ve described being part of it.

      • @UV

        Perhaps. I admit that just about everyone I’ve ever read/heard from subscribes to this concept of Sex > Masturbation. I’ll have to ask my lover what he thinks of it.

        Again though, the mental pleasure I get from giving physical pleasure to my FwB is really the only difference. When I masturbate, it’s a mind frame of “self-acceptance” whereas during sex it is “self-acceptance + other-acceptance”. I have never turned down an offer of sex, but I have followed up sex with masturbation to get back into my personal frame.

    • eoylus, my thoughts are with you. You are a compassionate good person and I really want to see you get to have all you want in terms of intimacy, love, and touch. I believe that when you’re ready, you will find yourself experiencing those things with someone. Would you let me know of your progress? 🙂

  28. Perhaps. But I would like to be educated and knowledgeable in that area before trying it. I am a research nerd 😛

  29. Eh, she may not have been, UV. Two of the colleges near me have allowed cuddle parties in their gymnasiums…it’s definitely not an activity I’d enjoy, but I’m told that they are fun and relaxing for the men and women who partake.

  30. Virgin to virgin I empathize with you, and Its really refreshing to see someone of the opposite sex have the similar issues. I’m not waiting for marriage, but at least losing it to someone I care for and possibly even love. I don’t have anything that could hinder my chances at it, its just I haven’t found someone who made me feel like I wanted to give up my virginity. I either am pressured or they simply don’t want to put in the effort… Love is a battleground and ambiguous relationships filled with casual sex is the modern culture, two worlds that unfortunately don’t work. But I’m holding my chin up high because I have a lot to offer, and one day someone will see that and change everything.

  31. Just found your blog through a random Google search – okay, not that random – and wanted to let you know how helpful it is to see something on this topic that doesn’t devolve into misogyny or PUAHate rhetoric. I’m in the same boat as you, down to the age, although I struggle with Avoidant tendencies, and do have some religious roadblocks (I’m not a Bible-thumper, by any means, but I have this romantic idea about sex and marriage). The struggle for me is more about being in a intimate relationship than the actual sex, but the same catch-22 applies: the longer before you succeed, the greater the chance you never will.

    tl;dr – thank you for sharing your story. It helps, a lot.

    • Well hopefully you’re not the dude who found my blog via the search term “england schol girl virgin bus porno hot pull.”

      I didn’t know what “incels” were until one of my followers tipped me off to it, and once I started investigating them I concluded that I didn’t want to be associated with that bunch. What a bitter and misanthropic lot most of them are. So I don’t tag any of my posts with “incel” or anything of the sort. Their attitudes are understandable, though. Give me a few years and I may very well end up like some of them. But I’m in a happy little place, although that’s not to say that I don’t get flashes of anger and take to my blog to vent. I don’t think I have any religious roadblocks, although I’m still wrestling with some leftover Catholic guilt. We’ll see how that works out…

      Thanks for reading, though!

  32. 31 year old woman and not religious or anything, just focused really hard on school and work for years, and now I’m left still waiting to find a genuinely emotionally intimate relationship before sex. Which gets even tougher when you’re overweight and now past 30 and have no serious dating history. So I sympathize with the feeling that the older you get the more it gets frustrating and lonely, watching all your friends move on and get married and be happy. And it becomes almost an awkward secret and seems even less likely with each year that passes. But it helps, even a little, to know you’re not alone out there. So thanks for posting this.

    • I am not overweight, but I am thin and short adult male 26 years old. I am focused on grad school right now, but have no sexual history at all. I feel lonely a lot as well and get tired of seeing acquaintances, friends or relatives around my age engaged or married who are around my age. Some even have children, which is also making me feel awkward around my peers as I am romantically inexperienced. I am not physically strong, tall or muscular, which are probably not attractive physical to most women. I am seen as a bit socially awkward, nerdy, a bit aloof, absent minded, intellectual, but romantically unlucky by my peers.

  33. Hi!
    I as wondering if you have an email address. I am new to wordpress and I thought there was a way to send you a private email. Nothing creepy…I have something I wanted to share with you. Here is the context-My dear friend and I are your hugest fans. My friend actually found you and one day he called me and read one of your entries to me over the phone. It was so hilarious I was hooked. Well…one day we thought…we should record these conversations because they are hilarious. I often listen to them especially when I am having a bad day they often lift my spirits! I wanted to send you one because I think you might appreciate them as well. Again, your blog and the time my friend and I spend sharing your blog are some of the greatest times…especially last year when I suffered a lot of loss your blog and our conversations kept me afloat!

    We had thought they would make a hilarious podcast…but of course we would NEVER post them without your approval.

    Anyways if you want to check it out email me: theofficialguyfanclub@gmail.com

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s