I couldn’t believe my luck.  She looked even better than her pictures and was by far the hottest girl I’d ever gone on a date with.  I was even more amazed that she actually seemed into me.  And she was so nice.

Things were going swimmingly until about halfway into the date.  Then my mouth got in the way.  I mentioned that I was one of six kids, and her eyes nearly popped out of her head.

“Six kids??  Wow.  Are there any grandkids?”

“Just two,” I said.  “And it looks like that’s going to be about it.  Nobody else seems to want kids.”

Her eyebrows went up. “But you do, right?”

Uh oh.  Shit.  Well, might as well get it out of the way, and I already knew how it was going to end.


“Actually I don’t,” I stated.  Unfortunately, she did.  Like three or four.  Ugh.  I guess it’s better to be let down now as opposed to later.  And there was a subtle change in the atmosphere after that admission.  By the end of the date I knew she’d lost interest in me.  Especially since she was the one to call it a night.  I’ve yet to have a girl end a date and then follow-up with, “I’d like to see you again.”

I walked her to her car, and on the way I came right out and said it:  “I guess you wouldn’t be interested in seeing me again, then?”  Nope.  She said she didn’t think there was any connection.  Personally, I don’t believe that’s necessarily something you can tell right away.  Nonetheless, I admitted that we seem to be looking for different things.  She wants kids and I don’t, and if that’s something that’s really important to her then I wouldn’t want to waste her time. She agreed and we parted ways very amicably.  She thanked me for a nice time and told me I was a great guy and wished me luck.  I wished her the same and we hugged each other good night before parting ways.

Afterwards I started thinking…  During our conversation about kids she mentioned that she had a friend who doesn’t want kids either, which consequently made it hard for her to meet guys.


That does not compute.  A girl who doesn’t want kids?  Most guys would be all over that.  There should be a waiting list to date her.  I seriously can’t remember the last time I heard a guy express a genuine desire for children.  Maybe I’m just being overly cynical, but I feel like many guys who say they want kids… say so because they know girls want guys who want kids.  Like Dave Chappelle said, “If a man could fuck a woman inside a cardboard box, he wouldn’t buy a house.”

In any case, this friend of hers sounded right up my alley… but did I dare ask?  Two days later I took the plunge.  I messaged Hot Girl and said, “Hey, I was just thinking – your friend who has a hard time meeting guys because she doesn’t want kids?  Maybe you could introduce us if she’s interested?”  I had nothing to lose by asking, so why the hell not?  I wasn’t sure whether she’d respond positively (or even at all), but she surprised me by saying that she would talk to her friend and see.  Wow.  Now I’m glad I asked.  Nothing may come of it, but see what happens when you take chances?


Last Thursday I’d set a date with Wine Girl (she works at a winery).  I picked a frozen yogurt and smoothie place in her town and we were good to go.  Then the text came with three hours to go:

“hey! I’m soo sorry but can we reschedule? It’s my moms bday and my sister planned a dinner for all of us she just told me about…”

Smells like bullshit to me.  Why would you set a date on your mother’s birthday?  I asked her precisely that question.  Well, she thought her dad would be taking her mother out.  Right, and you didn’t figure on spending anytime with her yourself?  But whatever.  I decided to call her bluff and I asked when she wanted to reschedule for.  As expected, no response.  Looks like I dodged another bullet.


As I said in my last post, I’d been running out of steam and wanted to take a break from OKC to regroup.  Instead I decided to change my approach.  More straightforward, more to-the-point, and more snark.  So far it seems to be working a little better.  Between now and Sunday I have three more dates (unless someone else cancels last-minute).  Saturday’s girl is the one I’m most interested in, but we’ll see how the others go.  Wish me luck!

First dates:  11
Second dates:  1
Cancellations:  3
Stood up:  1
Sexual experiences:  0.5

30 thoughts on “Kids

  1. Glad to see that something might come of the first date…maybe her “no babies” friend will hit it off with you.

    Wine girl is a lying flake. Nobody makes a date on their mother’s birthday. Come on…

    As for not wanting kids, I don’t. Never have, even as a youngling. While other girls asked for baby dolls and Barbies, I was playing with TMNT, Jurassic Park, Gargoyles, and GI Joe action figures. Oh and Hot Wheels cars…lots and lots of Hot Wheels cars.

    Now I’m 30, and I still don’t want kids. I doubt the toys caused my non-progeny related outlook, but they were probably another symptom of a masculine type mind.

  2. I laughed my ass off at that statue. And I can say ditto to the commenter above me. I still love Jurassic Park.

    Also, I have dumped about 4 guys because they wanted kids. It does happen.

    • I can believe that there are actually guys that want kids, but I just can’t get over the fact that there are girls who are struggling because they don’t. Seems to me there should still be plenty of men who would love that, because that’s always what I’ve known of other guys. I guess that’s not the case anymore now that I’m entering an older demographic?

  3. As a woman who was in uncertain about kids for a while, I can assure you that is a deal breaker for many men. Males have the biological need to spread their seed and have their own young. It’s more odd for either sex to forgo children than it is for them to want kids. Especially approaching your 30s.

  4. I’m very curious as to what you actually want. Is it the
    EXPERIENCE of sex? “Once, before I die.” Or an ongoing
    relationship with the PERFECT woman? Are you holding out
    until such a woman comes along?
    If it’s the former, it CAN be bought. If it’s the later it might NEVER
    29 can easily turn into 39, which can turn into 49 which can
    turn in 59, if you (“Live?”) that long.
    I’d love to know your date, location, and time of birth. Astrology
    can answer all the questions about your nature.

    • I’m not looking for the “perfect” woman, I’m looking for the right one. And I’m not at the point where I’m willing to pay for sex. For one, I want to be with someone who genuinely desires me, not someone who’s pretending to because I just handed her a thousand bucks. There would be no satisfaction in that for me. I’d have to be much older and pretty desperate before I resort to that route. Not to mention the “ick’ factor involved.

  5. lots of men want to be husbands & fathers. they just want to be those things with the right girl so they don’t even mention until they are sure it’s the right girl.

    • Oh I don’t doubt that, I just can’t believe that there aren’t plenty of men who would love a woman who doesn’t want kids. I’m really surprised this friend of hers is having such a hard time.

  6. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here.
    You know telling women you don’t want kids deters them and does you no favours. You want to have sex with a woman. You’re not screening someone for a wife.

    All you would have to say from now on instead of shooting yourself in the foot is:

    “I’m not sure. Maybe, with the right girl after a while. But I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. Anyways, what’s your favourite animal?”

    And COMPLETELY CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Stop ruining your chances straight away. Fair enough if you want to be honest, but like, you wouldn’t get into a heated debate with a girl on your first date about politics and religion which could piss her off. Skip those touchy subjects for when you know each other better, when you’ve been intimate and GOT SOMEWHERE. When you’re not just some stranger, but someone you and she are more inclined to be open with and not judge each other as much.

    If you avoid it for 2 or 3 dates, end up having sex with a girl and THEN drop the bombshell you don’t want kids, she probably won’t mind. She might accept that neither of you are looking that far in advance and probably won’t get married and just see each other casually, or seriously. Who knows? At least let yourself get to that point.

    She’s NOT going to ask you for a baby until you’ve had sex with her AT LEAST once and known her for years. So stop shooting yourself in the foot with that question so early.

    You pretty much ruined your chances with this one, for no good reason. Jesus, just change the subject! Say “I dunno, check ths out” and do a magic trick! She’ll forget about it! Move on, play to your strengths, show her a good time, make her laugh, make her INTERESTED IN YOU.

    • ” Jesus, just change the subject! Say “I dunno, check this out” and do a magic trick! She’ll forget about it!”

      …if she has the attention span of a goldfish, in which case she probably won’t be good in bed.

      Sorry, San. But I think your previous advice was much better: “I’m not sure. Maybe, with the right girl after a while. But I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. Anyways, what’s your favourite animal?”

      This is bound to work, because it shows UV thought about it a little, isn’t sure, leaves the door open for her to prove she’s the right girl, and doesn’t promise anything.

      • The magic trick thing was just an exaggeration, haha. But it would STILL be better than just slamming the door shut on a subject and catching your fingers in the frame.

        The phrase “never say never” comes to mind.
        Just saying “I don’t want kids” doesn’t say ANYTHING positive about you at all. It doesn’t leave ANY hope. It is slamming the door shut. Being vague on it at first is the right thing to do and bring it up after seeing the girl a few times. Or at least elaborate on it or make yourself look better?

        I personally don’t want kids, but it’s never been an issue when I’ve told a girl. Probably because most of the time I tell them that I’m YOUNG, I’m not sure what I want, it’s bound to change as I get older. I might fall madly in love with a girl at some point and want to start a family with her, but I just don’t know yet. I can’t predict the future, but I do love kids, I have cousins, nephews, I do charity work with them, but at the moment I don’t want any. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

        That just paints you as so much more of a thoughtful person, one who is open to possibilities and a notion most women feel strongly about, still staying true to yourself and being a bit compelling and mysterious.

        Like you said, it doesn’t promise anything, but it doesn’t completely slam the door shut.

        Literally, all this guy would have to say is “not at the moment.” DONE.
        If she presses? “In the future? Hmm, dunno. If I did I’d probably want to name them after my childhood hero. Daffy.”

        Or something funny, something witty, something stupid, something interesting. ANYTHING other than that might which kill the conversation or NOT make it more fun.

    • Looking for someone with long-term potential?

      You need to start realising how inexperienced you are, not just in sex but with relationships in general. You’re fighting a losing battle if you think you’re going to go through all these interviews with women and land with one that’s juuuuust riiiiight.

      Because mate, that’s literally all it sounds like to me. You meet women and have interviews and one or both of you (usually you) either passes (rarely) or fails (frequently). Dating shouldn’t be about screening or interviewing, but having fun, showing her a good time, living in the moment and not asking QUESTIONS about who you are, but letting it come out naturally. Don’t tell her who you are, bloody SHOW her. You’re all talk.

      You need to learn about being economic with the truth. This isn’t lying, but also not giving everything away so that it might ruin things until later. When you’re introduced to another guy by a friend, you most likely won’t ‘screen’ him or tell him things that might be ‘controversial’. You’ll just try to get along with him and have a good time. If he’s from Israel, you probably won’t get into how you support Palestine or something.

      Same with a woman. It’s very unlikely saying some things are in your best interests and holding back (BUT NOT LYING) on certain things… like, I dunno, you’re a virgin? Might be best for you. When people don’t know you, they’re more inclined to jump to conclusions and judge. It’s human nature, you can’t fix that. And that’s fair enough; you’re some random dude she met off the internet.

      So just shut up on those topics, change the subject, talk about something YOU find interesting and let your passion flow through instead of turning it into a painful screening session and interview. Nobody wants to go through that and it’s not working for you.

      Stop with your silly “looking for something long term” bullshit, too. You’re getting ahead of yourself. Neither you nor she will get even a ROUGH idea of who you are on a first date. You need to start giving girls a chance to give YOU a chance. Some of these girls might be the woman of your dreams and you won’t even know it because you’re stuck in interview mode, looking for something long term straight from the get go and messing up by telling them something they don’t want to hear.

      Again, I’m not saying LIE. But I’m not saying you have to be completely transparent either. I for example, hate One Direction with a seething anger. I would like to wring their skinny little necks. Yet if a girl told me on a first date she loves them and goes to their concerts, I’m not going to write her off. I’m not going to put down her (lack of) taste in music. I’m not going to get into a big rant about how bad they are. I might tease her in a fun way, but I barely know the girl, I WANT to get to know her beyond her crap choice in bands and so I’ll cut the conversational thread and move on. There’s more to people than a little hang up you might have.

      Girls seem to be doing this to you, and it isn’t fair. If a girl is writing you off because you don’t want kids, personally I find that lame.

      But you have to be the bigger person sometimes. Give her a chance to give you a chance. Don’t make it an issue. Change the subject. Talk about what you love. Find commanlities. Have fun. Don’t just SCREEN and go digging for evidence that she’s long term. Don’t look for long term. Look for fun, look for a PERSON. Stop giving yourself and her unbelievable expectation that as a virgin with no relationship experience, you might get something ‘long term’ out of this.

      Chill the hell out, dude.
      Appreciate the girl in front of you and live in the moment. Focus on getting a second date without throwing out sensitive subjects that could disqualify either of you. Go on a third date. Have sex! You SHOULD be thinking about getting these girls into bed at some point. For God’s sake man, it’s FUN. THEY are probably wanting to get laid, Christ almighty. They want it as much as you – probably more, since it’s starting to sound like you’re afraid to get laid at all and are just sabotaging your own chances.

      Once you’ve got to a point where you can truly be comfortable with a girl, where you can get on to subjects like marriage, children, abusive parents and connect in that deeper way, go for it. She most likely will appreciate you for you, and you will appreciate her for her. You won’t walk out on each other. You’ll stick around and compromise. You might decide what you thought you wanted before, isn’t actually what you want.

      And lets face it; you’re not coming from a very good reference point right now are you? Looking for something long term? You don’t know what you want. You have ZERO experience. You have to go out and get it. And that means not looking for Miss Right straight away, but Miss Right Now sometimes. To get the woman of your dreams, the one, you have to be competent at getting a few others first.

      Mine and most people’s taste in partners changes dramatically as they go through relationships. They learn more about other people. They learn more about themselves. They grow. That is the point of life. You start at the bottom and pretend you know what you’re looking for, that you know what you want long term. You go out into the wonderful maze that is life, you get lost in all its mysteries, lust after and fall in love when you least expected it, with those you never thought it possible.

      You have to give yourself up and what you thought was ‘right’ sometimes to get somewhere.

      You have to look across that table and not think, “does this girl meet my screening standards? Is she right long-term?”

      But take her by the hand, lead her into something more fun in the present and here and now, strip away all your boring preconceptions so that you can both just bear what’s really inside.

      Stop acting like you’re doing all this so you don’t waste your time. It takes more time than a first date or answering a few texts to see if someone is really worth your time and whether they’re amazing or a dick. If you’re not willing to invest it – especially when you’re so inexperienced and NEED to invest this time to become more experienced – then you really should quit dating and grow up a bit. Or yes, see an escort.

      Women are attracted to men who know what they’re doing, are confident, experienced and free and fun-loving.

      You don’t become this man looking for the perfect woman or someone to get into a long term relationship. You don’t become that kind of woman either. You spend years going through screw ups, heartbreak, recovery, soul searching, talking with friends, getting back on the horse, fooling around all through school, college, after you graduate.

      You’ve done none of this. You’ve got a LOT of catching up to do.
      And you want to start off screening and looking for the long-term? Yeah, right.

      It’s a very idealistic, romantic notion and yes, something you should desire at some point. But it shouldn’t be your main goal just yet. Baby steps, my friend. Chill out.

  7. I agree with San about the “I’m not sure” thing.
    And, I’m another one that does not want kids. Never have, never will. Men that want them are a deal breaker, and let’s not even start with ones that already have them.
    It’s easier for women because men don’t usually ask on the first date. And so I don’t tell until we’ve had a few dates and I feel there’s potential, which means it’s time to get that stuff out of the way before you progress.

  8. Wow, I couldn’t believe you asked about her friend- my jaw dropped as I read that. If I really was into a guy, I probably wouldn’t refer him to a friend unless I was 100% certain I wasn’t into it and I truly thought you’d connect. I’m interested to see if anything happens here.

    Some of the questions here among commenters are valid- what’s the priority? If it is a long-term relationship and finding love, then I can see why kids is a deal-breaker. If it’s for dating experience (potentially coupled with sex) than maybe less of a factor. More power to you!

  9. It’s funny you posted this just now……..a guy I know (very vaguely, he did some work on the place a while back) just had his second kid-dude is kid crazy! His wife has trouble having kids, they’ve been trying for 3 years for this second one, he’s already talking about the next one! Dotes on his son and was practically glowing about the second kid………he’d smother me the way he hovers over his wife when she’s pregnant. But I digress some guys do want kids. My dad was one of them. My mum makes no secret she never would’ve had us if our dad hadn’t have insisted LOL Me I’m a bit the same, I’m open to having kids if I’m in the right position…….but I could also change my mind too. How does ‘f’d if I know?’ go as a do you want kids answer?

      • Maybe they are just better at pretending they don’t? When they are with their guy friends it’s all ‘I don’t want no kids tying me down!’ but when they’re all cuddled up with the GF they think how cute their kids would be. I don’t know. Then there’s all the same sex couples who spend a lot of time and money having kids………obviously it’s a very individual thing. I think it’s good you’re up front about it though 🙂

  10. My husband REALLY wanted kids. After traveling, he’s not sure now, but it in his top 3 life goals. His best friend actually almost didn’t get married because he wants kids and his now-wife didn’t. It was a huge issue.

  11. There was a song from the 1960’s titled, “I’m A Believer.”
    You appearently, never had an experiece that made you
    a believer.

  12. Wow – I just finished reading through all the comments. Quite some interesting perspectives… My take? If I was in the girls shoes and heard that you didn’t want kids – I would appreciate you telling me that now versus later. It’s definitely a more personal, touchy subject which doesn’t usually come up on a first date – but the fact that it did come up, and that you were completely honest with her, I would respect that.

    Good for you for inquiring about her friend! Excited to hear if there are any updates there. Today’s the big day with Saturday girl – can’t wait to hear how it goes.

  13. Why are you even discussing such crap on a first date, when you should have been thinking how to sneak her into the bathroom for a quick poke.

    She gave you the hint that she wanted kids. Your supposed to roll with it and tell her instead “I am open to having a whole bunch of kids if I find the right girl”. That changes the frame of her needing to prove herself to you, not the other way,. You have been fighting a defensive war and your losing. You could have banged almost every on of the women you dated but you got yourself all fucked up, that you will never succeed unless you seriously unfuck yourself.

    Why dont you want kids. Your making life decisions and ding it from a position of extreme thirst fro pussy. Learn some game and meet a cool chick and there is a bog chance you will change your mind. Hell I didn’t want kids at first, but they happen in any healthy marriage. Be ambiguous or even just lie about the kids thing. It has nothing to do with getting laid for fucks sake.

    • That’s why I don’t talk about it.

      “Your supposed to roll with it and tell her instead ‘I am open to having a whole bunch of kids if I find the right girl.’ That changes the frame of her needing to prove herself to you, not the other way…”

      Hmm. Interesting.

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